i'd have to say that if i didnt have time really prepare for anything, id grab the 10/22 and the sig mosquito and a couple thousand rounds, food and water for 3 days (in my bugout(72hr) kit already) have some other basics in the kit as well. the important thing i always tell people that are interested in prepping or bugging out or what have you, is be sure you go out and try your gear and be sure its what you need and that it is enough to keep you till you can get to where you are going or at least to a predetermined supply cache or other means of resupply. Go out and spend at least 3 days living as basic as you can off the woods learn the plants and animals of every region you may fall back to and spend time in all of them. The best way to plan for a worst case scenario is to simulate it the best you can. Its not easy at first but thats why you train.
When would be the time to bug out? Would one bug out after the SHTF? Might be too late then, as everyone and their brothers would have the same idea. Roads would be clogged, the Law might stop people from leaving at first but as the situation worsens the Law will probably head for the hill too with their families.
Once law and order break down, its a free for all. Highway travel would be very dangerous as roadblocks and ambushes would be rampant...The scum taking anything you have, food, money, fuel, guns & ammo, women.
A static defensive position in the city would be over run in time. Even if you were to fortify a house or a office building, lets say, you would only last as long a food, water and ammunition last. The scum know or even think they know you have more than they do, they will lay siege to your fortress as long as it takes.
I feel a bug out would have to done in an organized group effort, strength in numbers, with the heaviest caliber weapons available....sorry guys them .22's wont cut it, 4X4 trucks and vans would be ideal, to convoy the group to safety...there is no doubt in my mind you will have to fight through roadblocks BUT in a large number chances are the the unorganized road blocker would flee rather than fight a large group of a well armed convoy . Dogs would most certainly be a must to provide early warning and security at any camp you might set up. A destination camp would have to be in a location where water and a food source would be found. In Arizona that would probably be North and East parts of the state and again every one and their brother will be headed that way. Above all be mobile because the have nots will be after the haves...once fuel runs out though that opens up another can of worms.
Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition
Its all true what you said. in that situation the .22's would not work. i would hope to have at least some kindof notice, political warnings would be what id watch to hopefully alert me to a sever degradation of my freedoms, at which point i would pack up and bail. After doing some reading on father of 10s blog, he had an article that a pilot wrote about flying out of bad situation. its worth the read. My brother in law (who is a pilot and plane owner) have since started building a plan to use that as a means to get out of town, in a grid lock type of scenario. There is some very useful info on how this can be done, and about plane ownership and getting your private pilots license. its actually pretty affordable. i am thinking very hard about doing it my self. Starting a group that could organize to help each other bug out, is a great idea, and i think easier to put together than some may think. Church going people will have it the easiest i think, there is already leadership set up, and for the most part a common trust and belief system. Just dont start a cult for the love of all that is holy!!! lol very social people that know and trust/spend time with their neighbors will have it 2nd easiest. in any case these are good reasons to go to church and/or put your guns down for a day and make some real friends, its a good motivator for me anyway lol. I think the biggest thing to do is keep your plans and training dynamic and be prepared to do what will best keep you and your loved ones alive.
What would you think the optimum group size would be? Im thinking around 10 adults, would be best, and if your in a much larger group, spilt into groups of ten and move as a unit.
My parents bought 150+ acres in New Mexico. Our backdoor abuts a National Park, so we have a giant backyard where ppl can't build. Last summer we drilled for water, which will be directed into a pond to bring in local wildlife. We have 3 RVS on blocks, as I'm the only one that tent-camps in my family. There's an outhouse, showerhouse, and gun range. Eventually we plan to bury maybe 4 storage containers or traincars, connected by hallways, for underground shelter.
We have a deal with the gov't: clear our acreage of dead trees and other fire-fueling debris, and the gov't gives us help drilling for water, carving roads, running power, etc.
When I go there I take a tent, my rifle/ammo, bug-out-bag, and guitar. I try to use the valuable time to hone my survival skills. Eventually I plan to go there and never come back.
In a SHTF scenario, I would first stay in town and work with the community to keep it alive. Buildings give shelter, cover, and concealment. If you must leave, have routes planned. In Phoenix, there's only maybe 5 paved roads that lead in/out of the city. All will be clogged by like-minded individuals trying to escape. Think four-wheel drive.
My friends and I study state maps and Google Earth to find dirt roads out of town. You can also find abandoned mines for shelter and weapons/food caches. Campgrounds provide water and power.
Unfortunately I would never invite anyone else here except for my family. In these situations, you invite friends, they invite families, then their friends. Eventually you're supporting groups of strangers whom you can't trust. I'll keep my numbers small and unnoticeable.
I could go for days about this stuff...GREAT topic!
If pro is the opposite of con, is the opposite of progress, Congress?
Certified Gun Nut
I am a "preparer", but I tend to agree with Ghost on this one. We tend to romanticize these Bug Out situations too much; like we're preparing to live in the woods all alone for the next 3, 5, 10, 20 years. I met a guy who has 20,000 AK/SKS rounds in his safe - just for a BO situation. Who the F does he think he's going to defend himself against, the Russians – and all by himself for that matter? I have a BO bag with basic supplies needed for 3 days. I have a wife and 2 kids so these are my focus. Considering I could drive as far as Canada in 3 days, I don't see the need to carry much more. I could find available fuel resources along the way and make do with what I have.
I focus on "Emergency Preparedness". What to do, say in the middle of a summer heat wave, if the valley experiences an extended blackout. BTW, this is the states #2 most likely scenario. The states (as in AZ) #1 "disaster preparedness" is actually a disaster in CA and us having to deal with all those Commifornicators coming over to use our resources. Have a place where your friends and relatives could "check in" with you if they couldn't get a hold of you. Don't think you're going to be Rambo and defend your (or a) property against willing, and likely multiple individuals that want to share. We came out of the ooze and developed into communities for a reason. Rarely does a lone wolf make it very long in the wild... Zach Galifianakis is the exception.
Would I bring a gun? Yes, of course - I would bring a few. I have a 3300 Pelican that can hold my AR, ammo, 3 pistols, and basic maintenance kit. Would I likely EVER need to use these? Not likely... I think we watch too much TV. By over-indulging on this notion that we’ll defend our families against the world, I think we lose sight the details that could seriously make or break a small emergency situation (like having daily medications for example).
Don't know, but I guess I'm past the age where I no longer think about a BOL. Back in the 60's, I did build an underground shelter in our backyard. It was the thing to do back then, but now, I wonder if it's worth it. Yeah, I am armed and might hold off a few people trying to get to my meger supply of whatever, and if our house floats away in a flood or blows down in a tornado, so be it, we'll do what we can to survive. Beyond that, regardless of the catastrophy, I doubt that we'd try to move out with a few million other people looking for a place to bug out to. The thought of trying to live off the land no longer has any appeal, it did when we were younger and had our kids living with us, but not anymore. Besides, we're tired, we hurt, and we'd not get very far anyway trying to battle the others for the same places to go. Let's face it, I won't be the only one armed out there. I'm not giving up mind you, I'm just a realist and know our limitations. The old and infirmed are the last to go. Although my wife and I don't act our age and still do things we've been doing for years, it always takes longer and hurts more. Yup, one look at us and we'll be sent to the back of the line and told to wait our turn. Oh yeah, we may shoot the SOB that told us that, and so we'll get some satifaction that way, but to find a place on our own, I wouldn't know right now if we would stay or go...
I have 60 acres of ranchland w/ a creek running through it, ash trees along the creek, mostly fenced. For sale near Wilcox, AZ w/ a good well, steel building & etc. if anyones actually interested in buying a place. We intended to retire there but have a nicer ranch nearby. Asking $78,000
Yes we do have one and that is all Im going to say. No offense intended.
I recently moved out here from California and have been catching up on prepping. I have my 3 day BOB almost done and have 2 55 gallons of water in my garage. Ever since my neighbor found out in casual conversation that I have stores, he said he would just come over and take what he needed. He said it half jokingly but I know from the conversations I've had with this guy that he would follow through with his intention. That , and the crazy horse lady who walks through my property and throws horse dung at my house , is giving me reason to have a BOL in Northern California, probably near Eureka.
Certified Gun Nut
So let's see here - 55-gallons x 2 barrels = 110 gallons x 8.33lb/gallon = >900 lbs of water! Holy ship! You just turned your BOB into a BIB (bug 'in' bag).
Originally Posted by rcerex
I know firsthand the difficulties of even short-term water storage (my years as a R&D chemist in the semiconductor industry). Even if you boil all the water that you put in for 5 minutes, and use chemical treatment (bleach or similar) for residual disinfection, AND have a perfectly sealed system (poly-pro usually isn't perfectly sealed FYI), you're lucky to get a Log-4 pathogen removal (99.99%). I'll have to go through my water/waste-water text book to find the calculation, but the water will be undrinkable in 4-5 months, depending on ambient temperature and light (I'll assume you're not going to refrigerate the drums!). If you really do need (and can travel with) this much water, make sure you have a means to disinfect later on.
You should be aware too, that all drums will degas and leech for some time (indefinitely, but will fall off significantly after a while). We did a test on how much work was required to “season” a new 55-gallon drum (I can’t recall the mfg right now, but it may come to me – I think it was Entegris, but I’ll need to think about it more) and the results were quite shocking to us. We ran samples every week for a month, and completely drained, triple-rinsed, and refilled the container with 18.2 megaohm E-Pure water after every 4th sample. Of course we’re looking for ppt/electronics-grade usage; drinking storage could be significantly less amount of seasoning required. However, some of the organics that came out of the drum can easily cause diarrhea or upset stomach for sensitive populations.
Everyone knows that in any survival situation, water is most important. I think the ratio is like 4-to-1 for water to food. Once you get past 72-hours, trying to carry enough water becomes troublesome and potentially harmful. Based on the knowledge and teachings of experienced “woodsman”, I’m going to plan on being able to treat on the move. Those “life straws” are fantastic and are actually very effective (I was skeptical but have tried them and have read tons of published data from filter companies and third-party testers). They have water purification systems with bucket attachments to make life easier. My BOB has a 7-gallon container (empty) that I can fill on the fly with tap/bottled/etc as needed. I also have a “collapsible” 5-gallon water container that is good for filtering into. Of course, a quart of bleach doesn’t hurt in an emergency situation.